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Good afternoon. I'm Janet Bostwick. I am a bankruptcy judge in Boston, Massachusetts. We're here today, November 16, 2024, to get the oral history of Shari Bedker. Shari recently retired after 28 years serving many of our restructuring professionals organizations. As executive director of the

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American College of Bankruptcy, as administrative director of the International Women's Insolvency and Restructuring Confederation, administrative director of the International Insolvency Institute. And administrative director of the National Bankruptcy Conference. As if that wasn't enough, Shari also served as administrative director for the Federal Magistrate Judges Association. So

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with that, we'll begin here in Standardsville, Virginia, to hear from Shari both her experiences and her unique perspective on restructuring organizations and professionals. Thank you, Shari. Thank you, Janet for traveling down from Boston to Stannardsville. All right. Well, why don't we start. At, you know, the

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early years you are beginning to give um folks some flavor of where you started out, so where did you go to school, where, what was your background before you became part of our Structure, if you will. Well, I always like to uh tell people that, you

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know, before I knew all these famous insolvency people that I did go to high school with Brad Pitt in Missouri, uh, but, um, so I grew up primarily in Missouri until I was, uh, in Springfield, Missouri, um, in in a small town, uh, until I was

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about 16 and I came to DC, uh, to live with my dad and I just loved the DC. I loved the Virginia. Uh, so I stayed here, um, I went to, uh, 2 years of college at Virginia Tech. Um, I started out as a math major.

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And then I got my first ever anything below a B in calculus. I got D's, which is very sad, but, uh, that I was like, OK, I like numbers, but not these theoretical math concepts. Uh, so I was like, well, let me try accounting. So, um,

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so I switched to accounting, uh, my sophomore year and really enjoyed it. Um, I had to, um. for college, I, I had to pay for it myself. So I ended up, um, I worked full time. I end up coming to transferring to George Mason, my junior

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year. I worked, uh, I worked full time during the day for, um, for the, the federal government, and at night I went to school to finish my, uh, account, my degree in accounting at George Mason University in Fairfax. Um, And I had several jobs at the

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government, um, so when I was 20 when I first started, I was paying the entire, um, I was in charge of paying the entire um phone bill for the federal government to GSA small amount, uh, yeah, just 20 million a month, and they entrusted a 20, a 20

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year old doing that. I had no degree at that time. I was still working on it. Uh and then uh from there, uh, I went to um the national. Not the National Bankruptcy Archives, but the National Archives, uh, where I was a budget analyst, and I

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did uh the budgets for the, the presidential libraries, the archives itself, and that was before they moved to Maryland, so it's kind of cool. So I got to work in the, the building. On on 7th Street in DC, so that was pretty neat. Um, and then

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about uh the time my husband, I, I met my husband at GSA, uh, my husband, Larry at at the GSA where I worked, which is the General Services Administration. Um, when I was 20, and so we got married in 1986, and uh at that time I

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trans I moved, I had my degree, my accounting degree, and so I went to work as an accountant at the Office of Naval Research, um, which is in Arlington, uh, and I was in charge of I did not, um, I did not invent the internet, but

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I actually was in charge of paying the bills. I actually was the accountant in charge of paying the bills for the ARPANET, uh, that created the internet. And so, uh, so I, so I had a good career there. And then when my son was born, I,

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I, uh, in, uh, in 1990, I, uh, I went ahead and took time off to, to, to spend time with him and raise a family. Um, and then, um, so I was doing my, I worked on, in the meantime, after I get my degree, I got

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my CPA license in Virginia, and then I worked on, um, a master's degree in tax. And my plan had been, OK, when I started having a family, I would go ahead and work, uh, do tax returns, uh, have my own small business, uh, which I did

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for seven years from uh 1990 to 1996, 1997. Uh, but my son came when he was, when he was very small, and he said, uh, he goes, Mom, I hate tax season. So then I said, OK, uh, come up with something else, you know, about that

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time is when you started, uh, uh, uh, reaching out to different For different opportunities. Yeah, and I did the first one that came across. I, uh, was very comfortable using QuickBooks. So I was like, well, let me see what they have on the QuickBooks, uh, professional

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thing, you know, that people are looking for, you know, bookkeepers, accountants. So I went on, and there was, uh, a person who Who worked out of her home, uh, and she needed a bookkeeper part-time. Um, and that was Suzanne Bingham with Armstrong and Associates. Uh, so

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I went interviewed, and it seems a little bit foreign to us at now, but at the time, she was doing this business out of her basement. Um, out of her home. Uh, but now it's like, yeah, everybody, you know, because she didn't, it was remote before

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there was remote. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So that was always kind of funny. Um, so I was a little bit, I was like, well, this is odd, but, uh, you know, we hit it off and, um, so she hired me and I was, you know, working part

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time for her, so she hired me in May of 1996. Uh, so that's when I kind of got sucked into the, uh, you know, the organization world. So at that point, so Suzanne's organization was Armstrong and Associates, and what organizations was she working with at

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the time when you came on board? Um, she was doing, she had just started in May of '96, working with the college as uh taking. Over the college administration from ABI. ABI did all the college administration from 1989 through 1996. Uh, and she had done for

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pro bono, she had done, uh, I work for, um, the administration for, um, for 19, from 1994 and 1995. She just kind of started, brought them on as a paying client. When I, when I was with her, she was, she was, uh, Suzanne's expertise was legislative,

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uh, tracking, which, um, so she had been doing that for NBC, um, the NACTT, the, the Chapter 13 trustees and some and some other groups and NBC bankruptcy and the bankruptcy conference, yes, NBC for everybody. Many restructuring professionals will know that shortcut, but, um, and so,

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and, and back then, um, I think you alluded to the fact back then. Um, the legislative process was far more intense. You had to actually, because it wasn't as readily available, right? Yeah. And so Suzanne would actually go down to the, and I've, I've got, I

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had gone down with her before, uh, and she was teaching me how, you know, showing me how she did the, she would actually sit there, go down to the Capitol. and go to the Federal Register and look through all the transcripts, uh, to find out if

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there were any bankruptcy, um, you know, uh, bills being put forward or had passed into law. And so she was doing a lot of that. And also back in those days, the, the staffers on the hill were very much Be a lot more long term. Now

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you're lucky if they're literally 6 months, they just rotate, you know, these kids come out of school, law school, they do it for 6 months, get them on their resume and they're out. But back then it, she had a lot deeper relationships with people on the

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hill and um You know, as did the NBC and and a lot of the people in the college, uh, so it was kind of a, it was a little bit different, but she really focused on that. My expertise, I like to, obviously I like numbers. I

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like numbers, I like organizing, uh, I'm good with computers. Um, so I, you know, when I first started working for it was to do the bookkeeping, but I started doing membership. Uh, I set up the databases, like, I, uh, I would do some of the, some

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of the communications, you know, back then, of course, we didn't do as much, you know, you didn't email was, was a thing, but not nearly, you know, picking up the phone and talking to people, uh, more. Um, so I did a lot of that kind of

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Uh, set up everything for the for the associations and started working with them and, you know, maybe about when you when you became chair of IWIRC or maybe right before, uh, Suzanne's like, she recognized that I really got along really well with the the leadership of

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the IWIRC uh group. Uh, so, um, she asked me to be. She went ahead and gave me the title of administrative director for IWIRC before I even took over the business. Uh, so I started, so IWIRC has always kind of been one, the one I was

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more involved with, as well as the college. That, those were the two that I was, in the beginning, I was very much involved with. And so you started in '96 and continued with sort of building your role, and at some point, you changed your role with

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Armstrong as well, correct? Right. Um, so, you know, so I kind of built. Built, you know, up those relationships and everything. And then in 2000, uh, in November of 2007, Suzanne asked me, she said, Well, you know, I, I, I've, I'd like to go ahead and

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retire. I'd like to go pursue some different opportunities. Would you be interested in, in taking over the business and I discussed it with my family. And it was a good time for me because my, uh, my son had just graduated high school. My daughter was, uh,

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you know, a junior in high school. So we had, you know, Uh, I had this, I had the space in my basement, uh, in Fairfax to go ahead and do that. Uh, uh, my family was very supportive. My husband Larry was, they were all very supportive

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of, of me taking on this new role, but, you know, be going from part time to obviously full time and more full time, and, uh, you know, working, uh, uh, closer with the clients, and there was a little bit of um You know, the clients didn't,

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some of the clients didn't quite know me as well. I work certainly did, but some of the other clients and they. Didn't quite realize my background. I think they thought I was more of strictly an administrative person, and then when I gave my background that I

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just told, you know, told you about, uh, they were like. Oh, you've been doing, you've been doing all this work. You know how, and I said, yeah, I set up all the systems. I, I know all the people. Uh, so it was a very easy, it

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was a very short transition, uh, but it was very easy because I did have already knew, you've been working with people, um, and so, um, there, you know, it's something that I, um, I really enjoyed, uh, it was, it was, you know, uh, and I knew

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when I did it, it was gonna be long term. Uh, so I guess I owned the business from 2008 to 2024 when I transitioned, uh, when I retired, uh, this summer. So I, so I did, so Suzanne had the business for 12 years and I did

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it for 16, but then I owned the business. So really developed a lot of those relationships. And for both the college and IWIRC IWIRC started, I think technically, it started in 19, 1993, its first conference in the North America was 1994. So you were there

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for much of the history of IWIRC, you know, out of its 30 years, you were there 28. And similarly for the college. Now the college Began in 1991 89, and continued through, um, so you were there for the bulk of it. So, um, let's talk a

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little bit about the organizations because you had a unique perspective, particularly having been involved in both of them for so long. And so for the college, you weren't, uh, um, while you weren't there in the beginning, you were working with many. of the people who had

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started it, and you also had the opportunity here through them and through Suzanne, the history. And I know recently, because you've retired, you've been transitioning materials and had an opportunity to look at them. So can you share for us some of the early history and, and,

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uh, of the college that you've been able to glean? Um, sure, and the way that, um, Uh, there were 5, 5 main people who that were members of ABI, which was, you know, membership association or anybody could join, uh, and there was a group of 5 people,

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and interestingly enough, uh, they were all from Non-New York firms, uh, they were in smaller markets. uh, there was Jerry Smith from uh Phoenix. There was Ed Krill from, I think Louisiana, um, uh, uh, Harry Dixon from Nebraska, uh, Bill Norton, uh, Judge Bill Norton uh

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from Tennessee, and, uh, Richard Gitlin from Connecticut, um, and they, um, and so they were kind of the, the main organizers of the of the. Of setting up this group and interestingly, I totally forgot this and I think I uh when I was going through the,

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the name was the American College of Bankruptcy Lawyers. Uh, that was not changed until 1991. Um, and the college was a um a Nebraska corporation until 1999 when we moved it to Virginia, did the paperwork to move it to Virginia, but it was at Nebraska because

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Harry Dixon was kind of a a main, uh, a main driver. He and Bill Norton in particular, the main driver of getting the the college up. And um, you know, the Uh, the impetus, you know, I said they were smaller markets. They were in smaller markets

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and they weren't getting quite the, and I don't know if, you know, it was just a different, um, you know, uh, way to, to encourage, um, those smaller markets getting recognition, which they might not necessarily get through like NI or anything, you know, where the, the

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larger firms in New York or or Chicago might get a little bit more um uh. Uh, you know, recognition, um, so they started, had one of the things I was telling, uh, telling you is that I thought it, I, that I didn't realize this in the

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in the minutes they they originally actually thought about not having judges as members, which I thought was was interesting, and they're also the original plan was to have Um, you know, almost, uh, that the, that the number of fellows in each circuit would be related to

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the ratio of bankruptcy judges in each circuit. Uh, so I think that was kind of interesting from the evolution point, you know, the, the early years. Um, they were, you know, uh, they would have the ABI ran it, um, I think it was first it was

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Nancy Davis and Sam Giordano, um, uh, kind of, you know, managed the associations, and then they, I think they decided it was, it was, they kind of wanted to have the separate. Uh administration. So those early years from '89 to 96 in in particular, it was

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just kind of getting their feet wet. They was trying to get the, the, the critical mass of, of members, um, you know, the right members figuring out some of those processes, getting things set. Um, it was very much um. You know, um, just given the times,

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it was very much male, uh, centric, um, and we would have the, uh they would have the, um, and even after I started working with them uh in, in '96, the induction, the induction ceremony would be would be at the Supreme Court, um and then they

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would go to the Metropolitan Club uh in DC which is a men's club for the dinner. And there would usually be an entertainment, which was the Capitol Steps, a lot of time, which is a political satire group, uh, which was quite entertaining, uh, and then

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they would, uh, and then the education session itself would be held at the Cosmos Club, which is another men's club in another club in in uh in DC was it always DC at that point? Yeah, so everything was in DC until we went to uh. Um,

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until the later years, uh, and I think one of the progressions I thought to me, I always think of the colleges, you know, 89 to 96 was kind of the formation years. Um, and then '97, um, Jerry Smith uh was chair when was the first, the

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chair when I was working with Jerry uh with Lewis and Broken Phoenix, uh, and he kind of set up a little bit more organization processes and the um chairs that followed him were Neal Batson and Ray Shapiro, uh, who really, uh, Neal was at um Alston

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and Bird in Atlanta and and Ray was in, uh, um. And I'm gonna blank uh the uh blank Rome in Philadelphia and New York, um, and they were too extremely uh organized and, and they really wanted to take the college kind of to the next level.

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They're like, OK, great with this is they seem to be working pretty well. It's, you know, they tweak some things, but they really worked to make the college, uh, you know. Uh, you know, we want to focus on education, we want to do outreach, we want

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to do different things. Um, you know, and up to that, and I know we didn't talk about this, but was it primarily just the one year, the, the event once a year that was happening at that point, so they came along and started to expand what

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was being done. Yeah, yeah, so they just kind of, you know, expanded a little bit more and, you know, and had uh Uh, more committees set up, and it was kind of about that same time that they started working with the, um, with the, with the

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National Bankruptcy Archives to set that up at UPenn University of Pennsylvania. And so, um, so I think that was kind of, that was one stage. The next, the next big stage, so that was kind of, you know, Jerry and, and Ray and Neal from '97 to

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2001. 2001. Uh, was kind of the next stage of evolution. Uh, we had a, uh, and, and the college didn't quite know, I think, you know, they're trying to figure out, you know, I said, still fairly young for an organization, still kind of trying to figure

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out what they wanted to do, you know, how to be effective, how to, uh, you know, not just be an honorary association, uh, you know, and really, really, uh, make an impact. And Larry, professor. Larry King, uh, from NYU came, and he gave the keynote speech

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at the induction ceremony in 2001. He was, um, very ill. As a matter of fact, uh, he passed away, I think it was, it was within two weeks, if not one week after he came to the induction ceremony. Uh, but he gave a speech called, and

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it, it was all about, it wasn't about, uh, you know, the code or, you know, it, it, you know, a lot of the keynote speakers and focused on, you know, almost educational type topics or anything like he focused, it was a beautiful speech and it's on

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our web, the college's website. Uh, uh, on, uh, giving back that you needed to give back to the industry, and that kind of, it kind of sparked a lot of people uh interest. That's when, uh, and that is when the, the foundation was started, uh, right

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after that. So you were involved in sort of the creation and the foundation as well, the American College of Bankruptcy Foundation, which is An affiliate, but separate from the college. So talk a little bit about what the how the foundation started and what things they were

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started with. Yeah, what they started with was, you know, from the first circuit, uh, where, where Judge Paster gets from, uh, was uh Phil Hendel had uh had an educational program he did at Boston. Uh, Boston College, Boston, Boston College, um, you know, and he wanted

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some funding, uh, you know, but it was that kind of thing where he was doing it for the students. It was open to anyone who wanted to come. Everybody's like, well, how can we, how can we, um, capitalize on this? How can we replicate this? How

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can we work on this? So the foundation, you know, and they wanted to, they couldn't quite figure out. It took them a few years, took them 2 or 3 years to, to get a committee, uh Do the what we know is foundation on the, uh, you

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know, with all the pro bono grants that we do to the legal aid associations and all of that. Um, but back then, um, you know, they weren't sure how you would do that. They, what the vetting process would look like. That was a lot of work

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to do. Um, as anyone who knows who's worked on, on the pro bono committee, uh, and so, um, you know, so, so they were, they were kind of trying to figure all of that out, uh, but originally they did uh some of the early grants, uh,

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the, the college said, OK, you know, we set up the 501c3 for the foundation, you know, we got um. So we got that officially set up so it was a separate organization did all the donations are and donations are tax deductible click here, uh, so, um,

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people would, um, you know, and we started getting some donations and the the foundation of the college. Pledged gave the foundation $75,000 in starter starter fees. They technically hired Armstrong and Associates um uh to, to, to do the, to manage it, you know, cause it was

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gonna be a different, different, uh. The different organizations, you know, different set different set of books, you know, we had to do all of that, um, uh, so, uh, and then we started collecting donations on the dues statements. I believe it's 2000. 2003, 2004, and it

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certainly was not the program that we're, you know, today, uh, that's one thing during your tenure, I mean, it has grown dramatically, and it changed, sort of, did you see that, um. What do you think the focus was that changed that? Uh, I think it was

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when, you know, the early, the early ones was more education like they've helped fund the, uh, Ken Klee's the Supreme Court book uh that he did, uh, they did a couple of the Boston, the Boston College thing, uh, they did a couple of other, uh, you know,

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uh, university-based events like that, and then, then they started, uh, you know, like maybe four legal aid. Uh, groups in 2004, I think 2004, 2005. Uh, but I think once, once they got the committee in place, uh, to really do the vetting, and I think then

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the fellows were like, and then once you could see the demand in 2008, there was quite a bit of demand, uh, you know, to, to for those organizations needed help. Uh, so I think that made it easier and just, you know, each, it's always, um, with

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any of the associations I've worked with, it to me it's just Fascinating and fun to work with all these different personalities to bring something totally different. They bring everybody brings something to the table, and usually they will and it's they add something. And so I think

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that all the, we have, we've had, you know, amazing chairs and presidents and uhm. Uh, so everybody just kind of builds on everything. And I think that was kind of, you know, started and it's like, OK, this is great. We've got this committee. Now let's raise

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some funds. Um, and I think people getting people involved. I, I do think it's interesting. I, I, I, I, if people grew up. With the, uh, and I don't think I've shared this with you, but to me if people grew up with the foundation, if they

00:26:21.209 - 00:26:38.520

joined after, say, when we started in 2005 forward, they will almost they, they will continue giving for the right even after they. If they were before that time, not so much, and I think it's just, again, uh, they, they didn't grow up with that uh grow

00:26:38.520 - 00:26:52.719

up is funny word, but, you know, it it wasn't part of the culture at the time and so they, uh, but everybody now they, they, you know, people know, you have to know somebody that pro bono committee because it's the largest committee. Of the college,

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encourage people to get involved, and they see how much work it is and how much um people care about it. Um, and I think that's kind of the biggest, um, and then once we started growing that, I, I, I will tell you that I was a

00:27:07.339 - 00:27:21.579

pessimist. I'm usually an optimist, but I was a pessimist. One of their things was they said, we want to get We want to have an endowment. We want to get to it in 2001, 200 or probably 2002. They wanted to get the endowment where we pay

00:27:21.579 - 00:27:37.020

for the administrative expenses, you know, which would mean you'd have to have well over a million dollars, you know. Um, and I was like, oh my goodness, they never, of course, they, they're, we're there. That's, you know, that's, we do have an endowed. Uh, we're in

00:27:37.020 - 00:27:57.589

a, you know, a good, safe investment program. Um, so, uh, so that's been really, really exciting to see and all the different, uh, groups that are helped. And, you know, I think that's, that's been very satisfying to me to see, um, that grow so much. So

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what other changes have you seen in the college you alluded to sort of different eras in it, but what do you think have been some of the more striking changes that you've seen from your perspective in the college over the years? Well, like I say, I

00:28:11.790 - 00:28:32.380

think went from honorary to OK, let's do outreach stuff and then I think, you know, and having a focus um and also having the more uh circuit driven focus now and of course, Demographics, uh, is a huge thing, uh, uh, you know, the There were very

00:28:32.380 - 00:28:46.640

few women um up even after I joined, I would go to the, I would, you know, I would go to a board meeting and, and I would, I would usually be the only woman there that, you know, a lot of times I was the only woman

00:28:46.640 - 00:29:06.564

in the, in the, around the. At the, the large hollow square, um, um, even after 2008, um, and I did wanna, you know, so just for, for again, for historical purposes, we've had two women, two women who were the, um, the chair, president chair. So Evelyn,

00:29:06.675 - 00:29:24.050

Evelyn Biery, um, uh, in uh in uh Houston, she was president from '03 to '05 and then she was chair from '05 to '07. Um, and I do have to share a funny Evelyn story. So we would have the, we had the induction at the, the Supreme Court, and then

00:29:24.050 - 00:29:44.229

we go to the Metropolitan Club for dinner in the Capitol steps, um, and Evelyn has a twin, an identical twin sister. And she had her to match Evelyn's, and they wore the same outfit. And she had, uh, her sister come and introduce and welcome people. And then

00:29:44.229 - 00:29:57.670

Evelyn popped up on the stage. That was pretty funny. For the people who did not realize that Evelyn had a twin. So that's great. So that was a lot of fun. And then our, our, our second woman chair, of course, is, is Melissa Kibler, uh, my

00:29:57.670 - 00:30:14.609

good friend. Um, and she, she was, uh, she was chair from, you know, '22 to '24. Um, and I believe she was also the first financial advisor. Yes, and she was, she was, um, you know, and, uh, but going to the demographics, you know, it's this,

00:30:14.869 - 00:30:35.189

you know, getting, uh, the smaller firms that the, the, the, the smaller markets and identifying the smaller, the people who in those, they may be, uh, smaller firms, but are Virtually are rock stars, but they're just not doing giant cases in Delaware or Texas or something.

00:30:35.439 - 00:30:52.790

Uh, so that I think there the concerted effort to do that and the er concerted effort to find, uh, you know, in, in the past few years, um. Especially with the, uh, you know, Mark Bloom and Lois Kibler, and, and now with Charlie, uh, Charlie Beckham

00:30:52.790 - 00:31:07.890

and and Trish Redmond, uh, you know, keeping that trying the the circuits are working to build their own pipelines, you know, they have to meet the criteria, but there's also, you could, you gotta know, you know, it's like anything else you, you know, when somebody you

00:31:07.890 - 00:31:22.500

work with somebody and you know, uh, this person has got it together, let me keep an eye on them, and I think the circuits are doing more of that. Inspection and, and, you know, keeping their eyes out a little bit more than they were before, you

00:31:22.500 - 00:31:40.760

know, before it's just, you know, kind of the big names. And, and it was also a change in the practice too, not just, I mean, we, we've been talking about restructuring, but The college and I work in Bryce, um, we think of restructuring as business, but

00:31:41.089 - 00:31:57.849

there are far more consumer cases. Have you seen that change in that? Oh yeah, definitely, uh, you know, and the, the, um, uh, the, the focus on, yeah, it's not all about Chapter 11. There's a lot more consumer cases in the world, um, you know, in

00:31:57.849 - 00:32:16.020

the US, so, um, you know, the focus on that and You know, even the people who aren't, uh, even if, you know, their whole business is all chapter 11, I think they understand. You know, through the education things and the focus on on what we're looking

00:32:16.020 - 00:32:30.439

for, uh, what the what the what the uh regions are looking at, you know, as far as new fellows and everything is like, you know, this is. Uh, you know, this is a big deal. Um, so I think that there have been a lot more, uh,

00:32:30.540 - 00:32:46.739

there's definitely been more focus on the, on the consumer, uh, than the Chapter 11 and, you know, that may have been in the past, and, um, and I think that's, it just kind of makes things, uh, you know, makes for more interesting um interactions and different,

00:32:46.819 - 00:33:04.369

it's different networking, um, you know, everything's always, you know, these associations, they are, they are about networking. But as an honorary one, it's networking and yeah, you're gonna make connections, but it's still, uh, and which I think is probably was more of the focus in the

00:33:04.369 - 00:33:22.369

early years, but now it's, it's, it's that part and but still just kind of getting people involved and it is there are people, uh, you know, and, you know, no matter how hard, you know, work to get people oriented, but it's like any association, you, you

00:33:22.369 - 00:33:35.790

know, you. You're always gonna have those people who are gonna show up at the induction ceremony, uh, get their picture taken, and we'll never see them again, unfortunately, but that's, that's just kind of the nature. It's, it's the nature of the beast, but, you know, the

00:33:35.790 - 00:33:54.949

college's goal in the last several years, especially, is to get more a bigger percentage of make that percentage of people less, you know, to, to get people to. So they had changed your workload over that. Uh yeah, that, that changed my. And maybe I had to

00:33:54.949 - 00:34:12.199

retire. No, I, I, no, I, I, I, yeah, uh, I, you know, it, it was a lot more, uh, work, uh, you know, of course, with everything, COVID changed everything. Everybody's different viewpoints. They were, uh, you know, there are fewer assistants. It seems like, um, a

00:34:12.199 - 00:34:26.739

lot of people were doing their own work and need a little extra help, but there's a lot more committees, um. A lot more committee active committees, which is fantastic, but it does, uh, it was quite a bit it did increase the workload on on myself and

00:34:26.739 - 00:34:42.520

my amazing staff, so, uh, so that's, uh, uh, you know, pluses and minuses, but, but it's good for the college again, it's just everything is growing and I don't think it's changing anything. It's just Uh, it's not, I mean, it's, I think there's a difference between

00:34:42.520 - 00:34:56.770

changing and, you know, changing the environment, you're just growing the, you're growing the sentiments and at what, uh, you know, what the college does to achieve those goals. So let's take a couple of minutes before we finish up to talk about the other organization you played,

00:34:56.840 - 00:35:15.389

as you said, you became administrator director of IWIRC before. You were even the owner of the business. So how was IWIRC different from the college when you came on board? Well, it was always a little bit different. It was very small, uh, well, actually about

00:35:15.389 - 00:35:30.790

the same time I joined, they both had probably about the same number of members, 250, but it's, it's different when you're uh with the honorary association because you're, um, you know, you're looking at different criteria and membership as opposed to IWIRC, which is a memberships.

00:35:31.179 - 00:35:50.679

Um, uh, organization, so it was always, you know, trying to get, how do we get people inspired to word of mouth, that that's kind of the best way to to for IWIRC to, to grow their membership and it was all The US, um, and that

00:35:50.679 - 00:36:08.840

one, that one has also been really fun to watch, grow, because again, the early years with uh Selinda uh Melnik and Laureen Ryan and Martha Fetner what they set up was, you know, just getting started. Will this thing fly? Will this work? And Um, our,

00:36:09.219 - 00:36:25.600

uh, and, uh, you know, so we were getting, and then we were having good success in the US and getting networks, getting those started. The, the, uh, it was international, uh, we had a Canadian network, but it, it still took a while, um, and what really

00:36:25.600 - 00:36:48.270

um Uh, and I, uh, honestly, the, the, the, the men in the practice, they would say, oh, it's your women's group, um, it was a little bit, you know, it, it was an aside, and now. We've got, uh, 2400 members across the globe. And now I

00:36:48.270 - 00:37:03.560

have men, male partners will come to me and say, Shari, I really want to get my associate involved. I want to get my female partner involved. How do I get involved? I'll, you know, and, um, you know, I was always excited about those kind of conversations.

00:37:03.969 - 00:37:20.715

Um, so I think that's Kind of, uh, really neat that, you know, IWIRC grew from maybe supporting, you know, the women supporting each other because there were so few women in the practice. But as there got to be more and the, the, uh, the environment's changed

00:37:20.715 - 00:37:38.280

a little bit, um, We were able to focus more on, OK. Yes, these are women and these are smart, very capable women, um, so we started getting asked for names for panels, we started getting, um, you know, we were invited to, uh, participate on the UNCITRAL.

00:37:38.405 - 00:37:57.590

Um, you know, to, uh, as a, as a NGO, um, you know, and, uh, our conference people would like to come, you know, we would get a lot of people come to our conferences and stuff, and the, um, Really what then what changed that was all

00:37:57.590 - 00:38:17.659

pretty much we're pretty static cause we had most of the people, women in the US, uh, but what really, uh, we, uh, the Hong Kong network once that started and once the London network started, um London network did not start until um about 2018. It was

00:38:17.659 - 00:38:36.030

late, but once they got started, those are are now had had both of those networks, Hong Kong and New York have overtaken or Hong Kong and um and uh and London have overtaken New York as the largest network, and so it's really Changed, uh, and that's

00:38:36.030 - 00:38:55.379

pretty cool to watch it go uh so international, um, you know, um, so we've got 9, 9 networks in Asia, uh, uh, you know, it was so much fun for me personally to work with all of this. And uh so that's pretty, uh, so it just changes

00:38:55.379 - 00:39:11.840

the nature of everything. So again, it's building on, you know, building on, but that one knows, you know, the word of mouth and the word of mouth worked really good, uh, especially in those jurisdictions, that was just amazing. So, so, um, we're about to wrap up.

00:39:11.929 - 00:39:30.250

Is there anything, you know, any particular Uh, thing we've overlooked. We we talked a lot before we started this, um, and I think we've covered many of the topics we talked about, but anything else you wanna, uh, anecdotes about the college or IWIRC that you

00:39:30.250 - 00:39:44.219

might have, we might have overlooked. Um, I'm trying to that's gonna look at my little list here, but I think we've, we've covered a lot of this stuff, um. You know, and I, one of the, the things that we had moved, uh, I always think it

00:39:44.219 - 00:40:01.949

was, uh, we did touch on it, the, the, the college events had always been in DC, uh, we just literally outgrew the Supreme Court. It was, uh, from a, from a manager perspective, it was a bit of a nightmare. Uh, we had to limit tickets, uh,

00:40:02.010 - 00:40:14.110

it was horrible sound. uh, the reception was in a teeny tiny area. So I know there were always some people who were like, oh, you know, if you're in these early classes, you got inducted at the court. Well, that's great, but you didn't have quite the

00:40:14.110 - 00:40:35.409

same venues. Um, so, um, we actually, uh, so we've, we've done a couple of other venues, but mainly it's been the Smithsonian and in DC, uh, but in 2018, um, San Diego, when Marc Levinson was chair, um, We wanted to try to, you know, not make

00:40:35.409 - 00:40:52.530

everybody come to DC, uh, because a lot of people come to DC for ABI in April too, so we just thought, you know, see if we give it the West Coast. A try. Uh, I think it was, uh, there's, there's pluses and minuses on that, so,

00:40:52.739 - 00:41:09.770

so we've done, um, we did after COVID, we did uh Indianapolis, but that was just cause we needed to be, um. And that was at the same time, a different time than we usually the college was usually in March, and that was a special, in October,

00:41:10.209 - 00:41:23.215

correct. So we did that. So I think, you know, the, the plan, uh, as I understand it right now is, you know, kind of maybe every 3 or 4 years, try to. Go, uh, outside of DC just for a little bit something different and to, you

00:41:23.215 - 00:41:37.219

know, see if we can get some people who may not have come before because DC may be far for them, especially if they're on the west coast to encourage them to, to, to come. So, um, I think that's a good thing. But um Yeah, I, I

00:41:37.219 - 00:41:55.939

hope anyone listening to this, uh, if you're listening to it in 2024, if you're listening to it in 2034, that you'll take something from it, uh, you know, that you'll find the, the, the history interesting, but just, you know, uh, encourage. Uh, you know, to volunteer

00:41:55.939 - 00:42:11.080

and, you know, it, there's different stages of your career, uh, and I've also seen that, uh, where people are like they don't have time, but they'll come back, um, and so I hope that that will encourage everybody to, you know, if it's not right right now

00:42:11.080 - 00:42:25.919

to get involved, that it may be at a later date. So I hope that encourage all of you to do that. And, um, I, it has been my privilege and a great honor to work with all these associations and meet so many wonderful people who are

00:42:25.919 - 00:42:43.820

still my friends. Uh, and, uh, and, uh, so thank you all for your support, uh, during this time. And I want to thank you, Shari, for taking the time, as I said in the beginning, you know, Shari is not a restructuring um professional, although she did

00:42:43.820 - 00:43:00.729

tell me. That, um, you had a touch of doing some, uh, um, history related to your master's that was related to bankruptcy, correct? Yeah, yeah. I had to write a big paper for my tax class and I did it on bankruptcy and taxation. So, and that

00:43:00.729 - 00:43:14.199

was before I was even involved. So, you know, you know, things work out the way they're supposed to work out. So you never know. That's still an area I don't pay much attention to. I rely on somebody to tell me. Um, but she's been invaluable, and

00:43:14.199 - 00:43:34.620

we've, we go way back, but I, I think it's, um, I think everyone will be grateful that she's taken the time to share her perspective because looking from the inside of the organizations shows what a key it has been for the restructuring organ, not just the

00:43:34.620 - 00:43:45.729

organizations, but for the professions. So thank you all. OK, thank you. All right. So OK. Let's see here.